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	<title>Comments on: Church Planting v. Church Starting&#8230;</title>
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	<description>[live... from planet earth]</description>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://www.wordsarenotenough.com/2009/02/16/church-planting-v-church-starting/comment-page-1/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would suggest three things to consider as you are thinking this through:

1st_consider the historical fact that multiple &quot;churches&quot; were really planted that day when Peter preached in Jerusalem. Here&#039;s why - many of those people had gathered for this festival from all over the world, speaking in many different tongues. They did not stay in Jerusalem. More than likely, they returned home from this event - a pretty strategic move on God&#039;s part I&#039;d say. Israel being a land bridge for the three continents connecting the world and therefore exponentially multiplying the impact of the Gospel. So - lots of &quot;churches&quot; were started that day and planted in multiple contexts through the lives of these people returning to their home towns.

2nd_I would suggest that neither Peter or Paul set out to start churches. I am not sure from reading Acts that you can say they were passionate about church planting at all. I think you could say they were passionate about planting and watering the Gospel into people&#039;s lives. What happened from there is that the church sprouted up in and through the lives of the church (people) following Jesus together and being the church in their context.

3rd_I would suggest that we don&#039;t &quot;start&quot; or &quot;plant&quot; churches, we plant and water the Gospel into lives. God uses us as catalytic growers into lives, but He BLOSSOMS His church. Paul said that we plant and water, but God causes the growth. If so, then He blossoms His church. We just plant and water into the lives of the people who will soon be the church as they follow Jesus.

Thoughts from the cheap seats. Thankful for you Joe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest three things to consider as you are thinking this through:</p>
<p>1st_consider the historical fact that multiple &#8220;churches&#8221; were really planted that day when Peter preached in Jerusalem. Here&#8217;s why &#8211; many of those people had gathered for this festival from all over the world, speaking in many different tongues. They did not stay in Jerusalem. More than likely, they returned home from this event &#8211; a pretty strategic move on God&#8217;s part I&#8217;d say. Israel being a land bridge for the three continents connecting the world and therefore exponentially multiplying the impact of the Gospel. So &#8211; lots of &#8220;churches&#8221; were started that day and planted in multiple contexts through the lives of these people returning to their home towns.</p>
<p>2nd_I would suggest that neither Peter or Paul set out to start churches. I am not sure from reading Acts that you can say they were passionate about church planting at all. I think you could say they were passionate about planting and watering the Gospel into people&#8217;s lives. What happened from there is that the church sprouted up in and through the lives of the church (people) following Jesus together and being the church in their context.</p>
<p>3rd_I would suggest that we don&#8217;t &#8220;start&#8221; or &#8220;plant&#8221; churches, we plant and water the Gospel into lives. God uses us as catalytic growers into lives, but He BLOSSOMS His church. Paul said that we plant and water, but God causes the growth. If so, then He blossoms His church. We just plant and water into the lives of the people who will soon be the church as they follow Jesus.</p>
<p>Thoughts from the cheap seats. Thankful for you Joe.</p>
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		<title>By: Blaize</title>
		<link>http://www.wordsarenotenough.com/2009/02/16/church-planting-v-church-starting/comment-page-1/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>Blaize</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.wordsarenotenough.com/?p=2464#comment-353</guid>
		<description>Paradox of the heap...If a pile of sand has a million grains in it, is it still a pile of sand if you remove one grain? How about 2? 3? 4? 5? ..... 999,990?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paradox of the heap&#8230;If a pile of sand has a million grains in it, is it still a pile of sand if you remove one grain? How about 2? 3? 4? 5? &#8230;.. 999,990?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.wordsarenotenough.com/2009/02/16/church-planting-v-church-starting/comment-page-1/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.wordsarenotenough.com/?p=2464#comment-352</guid>
		<description>Dennis, I tend to agree with you, BUT... I do think there are exceptions to your 99%.  What Neil Cole is doing, for example, is mostly new growth.  What I&#039;d like to do is the same.

The way I see it, if 80-90% of the church in America is lost, then I see myself as a missionary to the &quot;churched&quot; non-Christians, just as much as anybody else, especially if I am a part of an established church.  Then, of course, there are your nominal/cultural Christians- people who are only Christian because of birth and tradition.  They, too, need to learn what it means to follow Jesus.

The goal certainly isn&#039;t to start a church (or plant) and watch the believers in an area start showing up.  My guess is if they&#039;re dedicated to Christ, they&#039;ll stick around their own churches anyway.  Any church hoppers I would get- well, we&#039;d want to lead them into a deep relationship with Christ just like anybody else.  I guess what I&#039;m saying is, &quot;treat&#039;em all like they&#039;re lost until they show that they&#039;re not.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis, I tend to agree with you, BUT&#8230; I do think there are exceptions to your 99%.  What Neil Cole is doing, for example, is mostly new growth.  What I&#8217;d like to do is the same.</p>
<p>The way I see it, if 80-90% of the church in America is lost, then I see myself as a missionary to the &#8220;churched&#8221; non-Christians, just as much as anybody else, especially if I am a part of an established church.  Then, of course, there are your nominal/cultural Christians- people who are only Christian because of birth and tradition.  They, too, need to learn what it means to follow Jesus.</p>
<p>The goal certainly isn&#8217;t to start a church (or plant) and watch the believers in an area start showing up.  My guess is if they&#8217;re dedicated to Christ, they&#8217;ll stick around their own churches anyway.  Any church hoppers I would get- well, we&#8217;d want to lead them into a deep relationship with Christ just like anybody else.  I guess what I&#8217;m saying is, &#8220;treat&#8217;em all like they&#8217;re lost until they show that they&#8217;re not.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Muse</title>
		<link>http://www.wordsarenotenough.com/2009/02/16/church-planting-v-church-starting/comment-page-1/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Muse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.wordsarenotenough.com/?p=2464#comment-351</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not really a numbers issue that we should look at, the key issue I think is this. Are you just &quot;starting a church&quot;, which to me is simply creating an alternative to a church people already go to. In other word all you have is church transplants, people who are already Christians and are just leaving one church to go to your new one.

Or like in Acts are you gospel planting, resulting in salvations, resulting in a church, a new community of followers of Christ, i.e. church planting, the church is birthed out of new salvations just like in Acts with the 3000.

Today in America we have nothing but church starting, 99% of church growth here is just transfer or unchurched Christian going to a &quot;New church&quot; the latest version of church.

In China and the rest of the World we have &quot;church planting&quot;, people going out and planting the gospel, resulting in people coming to Christ, resulting in new churches - community of faiths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not really a numbers issue that we should look at, the key issue I think is this. Are you just &#8220;starting a church&#8221;, which to me is simply creating an alternative to a church people already go to. In other word all you have is church transplants, people who are already Christians and are just leaving one church to go to your new one.</p>
<p>Or like in Acts are you gospel planting, resulting in salvations, resulting in a church, a new community of followers of Christ, i.e. church planting, the church is birthed out of new salvations just like in Acts with the 3000.</p>
<p>Today in America we have nothing but church starting, 99% of church growth here is just transfer or unchurched Christian going to a &#8220;New church&#8221; the latest version of church.</p>
<p>In China and the rest of the World we have &#8220;church planting&#8221;, people going out and planting the gospel, resulting in people coming to Christ, resulting in new churches &#8211; community of faiths.</p>
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		<title>By: billy</title>
		<link>http://www.wordsarenotenough.com/2009/02/16/church-planting-v-church-starting/comment-page-1/#comment-350</link>
		<dc:creator>billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.wordsarenotenough.com/?p=2464#comment-350</guid>
		<description>The current issue of Mission Frontiers has an interesting article on Church Planting. I think it reveals the need for balance in being vs thinking. People on the front lines should be asking questions and thinking about how they go about God&#039;s work. At least they should take time to read and listen to those in the rear who are asking questions and thinking. Two examples come to mind: sailors who take time to check there position, and a woodsman who takes time to sharpen his axe.
Planting Churches: Learning the Hard Way Tim and Rebecca Lewis
http://www.missionfrontiers.org/latestissue.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The current issue of Mission Frontiers has an interesting article on Church Planting. I think it reveals the need for balance in being vs thinking. People on the front lines should be asking questions and thinking about how they go about God&#8217;s work. At least they should take time to read and listen to those in the rear who are asking questions and thinking. Two examples come to mind: sailors who take time to check there position, and a woodsman who takes time to sharpen his axe.<br />
Planting Churches: Learning the Hard Way Tim and Rebecca Lewis<br />
<a href="http://www.missionfrontiers.org/latestissue.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.missionfrontiers.org/latestissue.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: billy</title>
		<link>http://www.wordsarenotenough.com/2009/02/16/church-planting-v-church-starting/comment-page-1/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.wordsarenotenough.com/?p=2464#comment-349</guid>
		<description>As long as we are dabbling in semantics anyway, what is a chruch at all? Is it where &quot;two or more are gathered&quot; or does one of the two have to be preaching/teaching? Is a sunday school or home group a church? I am sure there is technical definition for church but it seems to be left a little open at least compared to the level of detail the LORD laid out in Exodus just for the High Priest&#039;s garments. So maybe if we start with I do not have this well thought out, just piping in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as we are dabbling in semantics anyway, what is a chruch at all? Is it where &#8220;two or more are gathered&#8221; or does one of the two have to be preaching/teaching? Is a sunday school or home group a church? I am sure there is technical definition for church but it seems to be left a little open at least compared to the level of detail the LORD laid out in Exodus just for the High Priest&#8217;s garments. So maybe if we start with I do not have this well thought out, just piping in.</p>
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